Ep. 88 - Money Isn’t Scary: Shifting The Conversation, Stigma and Mindset Around Money and Worth with Meghan Dwyer
Meghan Dwyer is a wife, boy mom of 2, financial planner and the host of the Money Isn’t Scary podcast, which was inspired by her own struggle with her relationship with money, while trying to do all the "right" things as a working mom.
Meghan is a woman on a mission to remove the stigma around money in our culture and to get women talking about it, without fear.
In this episode Meghan and I chat about.
Switching jobs/companies in the middle of COVID and the process she went through to gain clarity on her values and what she wanted to do in the world
How to get intune with and shift your beliefs and mindset around money
How to break through the taboo and stigmas and have conversations about money with your mom group
Equating money with worth and the stigma around being the breadwinner as a mom
Follow Meghan at
Website: www.moneyisntscary.com
Instagram: @moneyisntscary
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Ep. 88 - Meghan Dwyer Transcript
[00:00:00] Stephanie: Welcome back to Mommy’s on a Call. Today I'm joined by Meghan Dwyer. She's a wife boy, mom of two financial planner and the host of the money isn't scary podcast, which was inspired by her own struggle with her relationship with money. We'll try to do all the right things as a working mom, Megan, as a woman on a mission to remove the stigma around money in our culture and to get women talking about it without fear without further do welcome Meghan.
[00:01:19] Meghan: Thank you for having me.
[00:01:21] Stephanie: I'm excited to dive into this conversation cause I feel like money is such an important topic for moms, but before we get started, I want to ask, what is your biggest mom win of the week?
[00:01:31] Meghan: I would say I have two little boys. They're five and two and a half. And dinner time is a big challenge for us as I'm sure it is for you as well, but it's really hard for us to sit down and for all of us to eat the same meal, as I'm sure you get, you understand, actually last night I made the kid.
Grilled cheese and strawberries. That was our dinner. And they, we sat outside and they both sat there for, I would say 10 minutes and we had a conversation and they ate their grilled cheese and they loved it. And I was just like, in my element, I'm like, so happy.
[00:02:09] Stephanie: Wow. You got them to sit for 10 minutes.
[00:02:13] Meghan: That they were a little wiggly, but they definitely sat.
[00:02:16] Stephanie: Wow. That's impressive. It's hard to get them all also eating the exact same thing. I've taken like all of those baby toddler, food courses and stuff, but I still struggle with getting them all on the same page.
[00:02:27] Meghan: So hard. It that's, that's such a rare thing for us in our house.
[00:02:31] Stephanie: Well, good mom. When, so to start off, I know you said you had two boys, two and a half and five. Can you give us a little bit background about your family structure? You know, what do you and your partner do? What's kind of your family situation at the moment.
[00:02:44] Meghan: Yeah, so I'm married. My husband is actually currently unemployed. He lost his job and he's lost his job twice in the last year. And I just want to caveat that with, just by saying that that's normal in this world. I know it's, we're in COVID times and it's really difficult and you know, he's just had a slew of bad luck, but that has caused. A lot of like challenges, but yet realness in our house.
So he's actually on his way to an interview now, so that he's an insurance property and casualty insurance. So things have been good. Things are going along. He's he's doing well. And I expect him to, to get something sooner than later when he's positive about it. But yeah, so the days are a little crazy and I am, I work full time as a financial planner.
And so we have daycare for our kids right now. My oldest will be going off to kindergarten in the fall, but right now there's, they're both still at the same school. So the days are shorter now because of, uh, because of COVID. So it's usually we have to do drop off by nine o'clock and then pick up by, by like four o'clock or so.
And so that means it's kinda crunch time in the middle. It's like the T it's almost like sometimes the walls close in on you a little bit, because you've got so much to do in such a short period of time. But we're kind of just getting used to that juggle and it's all good. It's just, it's a matter of just kind of knowing that we, this too will pass.
Right. It's just about getting through the day sometimes.
[00:04:09] Stephanie: How do you structure your day and does your husband then take a role in the childcare or pick up, drop off because you're the one working full time.
[00:04:17] Meghan: Yeah. That's exactly what he does. So typically, and I would like to say that I used to have more of a consistent morning routine than I do now.
And that's because really my oldest is up at five 30 at the latest almost every day. So I used to get up before him when I could, but he's a very early riser, so I can't so much anymore. It just makes it extra, extra difficult in the morning. So what's your typical waking up time then? Oh, I mean, I'm usually up by six anyway at the latest, but it's sometimes he's up before me.
So then I just kind of get the day started. So we will usually, we both try to start the day off by doing some form of exercise. So we try to take. So one day he'll go I'll, I'll watch the kids, get them up and dressed and breakfast and he'll go take a ride or something. And then the next day I'll do the same thing.
So we try to be on the same page with that. And then I'm usually the one that's home, getting them dressed and ready to get out the door. And then he's doing drop-offs and then pick up as kind of the same thing he'll he'll typically do pick up unless he has a meeting or something and we just have to juggle.
And that's the, that's the hard part with two working parents is just kind of coordinating schedules and stuff over. Who's going to do the drop-off and who's going to do the pickup. And sometimes that is always an easy. So somebody might be late for a meeting sometimes. But we roll with it. Yeah. And then it's, and then kind of, once the kids get home for the day, it is just kind of, it's organized chaos.
As I like to call it. We try to just give them some kind of activity, usually right after school, where they're outside still. And then we kind of, it gets transitioned into dinner time and then, you know, bath time and bedtime and that's, as you know, with busy families, that's not always the same every single day, either the routines are there.
They're general refer teens, but not very. Consistent, if you will.
[00:05:57] Stephanie: Right. And during non COVID times, were you working in an office where you out of the house, you know, what did you do when your kids were really living.
[00:06:04] Meghan: Yeah. So I was working in an office. I worked, um, I live just south of Boston and I was commuting in and out of the city.
So my, I would drop my kids off at, uh, at the daycare, which was on the way into the city. It was a rush cause I would always, I would drop off by a certain time. I would park the car and then I would rush to go catch the train and then I would take the train into the city and I would try to make sure I was there by 8 45, 9 o'clock.
And it's just funny thinking. Back now how different that is. Whereas I felt like I was so much more productive by that time of day versus where I am now. I sometimes barely even dress myself by that time. So it's like, wow. How things change?
[00:06:42] Stephanie: I know. And well, you have to go back into an office anytime.
[00:06:46] Meghan: I won't have to. Um, so I actually changed jobs a couple of months ago, but in which is fully flexible. So if I can go, I can kind of come and go as I please, which is really nice in a way I'm craving going in just for the social aspect, the social aspect, and to get out of these four walls and to feel like that feel that productiveness again, as I'm making, as I'm doing something and commuting somewhere and going somewhere and coming home.
But I will definitely have some sort of blend of it all, like going into the office a couple of days when everything is ready to go, which hopefully will be by this fall, but we'll see.
[00:07:17] Stephanie: What made you switch jobs in the middle of COVID?
[00:07:20] Meghan: Honestly, there was a couple of things I wasn't looking for a job and I had, I was sort of recruited.
I was working. I was approached by somebody that I used to work with years ago and I had stayed in touch with, and he was telling me about how they were looking to, to grow. And, um, they're really looking for another lead advisor and the firm was just. Taking off, like they are just growing like a rocket ship.
And I thought that was really cool. There was a lot of things specifically between the roles that I, that I really liked, but one of the things too is that like this last year I feel like has really affected so many people and just really made you question. What you're doing and their purpose, and if you're fulfilled and, you know, just kind of like your what's your role in the world here.
And so I had been doing a lot of, kind of questioning around about that as well. And I think this new role for me is very much in alignment with. Who I am in the world right now and the mission and my just general, the values that I like to portray. And there's so much in alignment with who I am now.
[00:08:25] Stephanie: I think a lot of moms are going through that, especially since last year.
There's so many women left the workplace, whether or not they wanted to or not. And they started really questioning things. What was kind of the process you went through to uncover what your values are, what you really wanted. Did you have some sort of like epiphany or was this just something that. You just never paid attention to it.
How did you approach that?
[00:08:47] Meghan: I was part of a coaching program and, um, this was more, it was for moms. It was for typically working moms that just wanted to feel good about how they approach their days. And so there was a once I started that and I was in that program for about a year. And when I started that, that was really the first time I had ever been sort of approached with those questions.
Like, what do I want, who do I want to be in the world? What do I want to w what are those. Goals that I have, whether it's long-term or short-term like, who do I really want to be in this world? And what do I like to do and who am I? And that was sort of really like the first time again, that I'd ever been approached to answer those kinds of questions, but.
It challenged me. It challenged me in a way that I had, I don't think I ever would have before. And so there was moments where I was just like, I'm going to get out a journal and I'm just going to write down on a piece of paper. What do I want, what do I want over and over again? And some stuff sort of surprised me.
And I think that having that. Time and ability to do that over the last year really gave me a little bit more clarity on who I am and what I want to do in the world. And that really helped to kind of foster the idea that I had for the podcast that I started at the end of last year.
[00:09:59] Stephanie: Yeah. I want to hear a little bit more about the podcast.
You talk all, I love the name money isn't scary because I think as a mom, we, you know, money's there, but we don't really talk about it a lot or we don't, even as women, we don't approach our finances or we don't talk about money. It's not like we go with our mom groups and we talk about that. We always talk about our kids or you know, what our husband did or whatever that might be.
So tell me a little bit about the podcast and what are some kind of. I guess most fun topics you love to talk about.
[00:10:30] Meghan: Yeah. So yeah, that's spot on. Like I, the podcast really has been my creative outlet over the last couple of months and I've realized through it, th the idea of why I started it is because just like you said, there is such a stigma and a taboo around money in our culture, especially for women.
So it's really geared towards women and specifically moms to help us to stop staying small and to really feel empowered around money. And as a financial planner, I realized, you know, I can give somebody financial advice, but I don't want to do that on this podcast. I want to really dive into the core of what's underlying our thoughts, our feelings, our behaviors, when it comes to everything money.
So if you are, if you go to, you know, you, you start to check your balance. Does that give you anxiety? And if it does start to notice it, and let's kind of dig apart, why.
There's also so many just misconceptions. I think around money, there are stories that we tell ourselves that people let drive their lives and let drive kind of their behaviors and their underlying thoughts.
Like, you know, there's these thoughts out there that, you know, I'm just not good at math. And I've had a couple of women, mom, friends actually say that to me before, like, well, my, my husband just handles all the finances and the family cause I'm not good at math. And it's like, are you. Really or is that just the story that you're telling yourself and are you letting it defaulting to let somebody else handle the FA the family's finances?
Because you're just really, maybe scared about it or there's, there's a lot of other feelings that come up from maybe when you were younger or something like. So, what I want to encourage women to do is to really start to get in tune with those feelings and those stories and all the emotions that come up and let's, let's dig into it a little bit more.
And then, and then let's try to challenge it, challenge those thoughts and those. And how do you, I guess, approach that in the beginning.
[00:12:21] Stephanie: So you were, before we, you know, got on this recording, we were talking about how, you know, you have a lot of clients that maybe are older and are talking about retirement and stuff, and it really stems back to the money story they had when they were a child or what they were taught growing up.
So once you kind of identify that story that you might have about money, just like these moms, like I'm not good at math or whatnot, how do you approach that? Like besides saying like, okay, that's just a story that I have, you know, do you have any tips or tools that you help your clients or advise on the podcast on how to shift
[00:12:54] Meghan: that mindset?
Yeah. I mean, I think the awareness is the first thing it's funny once, you know, you can't not know. So once you kind of identify yourself as saying, you know, that's somebody, that's something that I think that's something that I do now. After at that point, when it comes up again, you'll be aware. So it's just have that.
So certainly have that awareness. This isn't something that like shifting your mindset. Isn't something that's just going to happen, like overnight with like the flip of a switch it's it's it's work. It's just continuing to have that knowledge and that awareness and really question it. And so I would say one other thing is.
Okay. So you have this belief, right? Journal it out, like, write it out, dig deeper, like really take a deep dive into where is that coming from and why? And then start to think about like ways that we can challenge that. So if you say, you know, I'm just not good at maths. Okay. Where did that come from? Maybe you were told that as a kid or if somebody just continued to say, like, you're really good in this area, but you're just not really that good at math.
So you keep that belief with you. I think it's really important to drill down and say. Am I actually not really that good at math. Is that true? And just continue to ask yourself that, is that true? Is that true? Is that true? Cause chances are it's not. And then also get curious. So if you don't know anything about financial, your financial world ask, and that's something that I think.
Are so afraid to do. They're afraid to get involved. They're afraid to, to ask for help because we may be seen as, and this is across all areas, right? Not just in finances, but we may be seen as vulnerable, or we may be seen as not as strong. Right. And, um, and I think a lot of culture. Into play a lot here as well.
And I'm into how we feel about ourselves. So it's really important to ask for help and to get curious and to, to give yourself like some of that basic knowledge. And I think also, you know, find it's hard, but find other people who are, who are in the same boat as you, that you can, that you can feel comfortable talking to about this stuff.
Because women, I feel like we are. Designed to be a tribe to be, to be supportive of each other. And especially in the world that we're in right now where everybody's so isolated, we don't do that as much. And so I think that let's start to talk about money.
[00:15:11] Stephanie: I was going, gonna say, how do you bring that up in like a mom group?
Because you know, it sounds a little, it almost. So I know you talked about like keeping up with the Kardashians and all of that type of stuff, and it's just like, it's like you bring it up and either your deem does showy or you get that almost like not imposter syndrome, but that like comparison. Where you're like, oh, she just got this.
Like, I want that. And it becomes like, it becomes this awkward thing. So have you had conversations about money with your friends? And if so, like how did that come up? And then I want to dive into also you being the breadwinner, because that's another conversation on how you bring up money in relationships.
[00:15:48] Meghan: Yeah. Yeah. So I think an easy way to sort of transition into a conversation like this around money. And of course, you know, if you have friends that are all working in different industries, I have friends that are teachers and nurses, and I don't really know what they make because it's a whole different industry.
I just don't really understand how it works. I think. W a good place to start is within your industry. So I think if you are working at a company and you have other, um, women that, you know, I, I was in my previous job, I worked with a good amount of women and we would talk a lot about it and they were younger and I'm so glad that they did that, that they would, uh, they would ask me and I was like, sure, this is what I make.
And they're like, okay, that's just good to know. That's a good starting point because you're really, you're, you're comparing apples to apples here. But what I think is important is, you know, start there. So you kind of can get comfortable with it because the information that you could just tell, somebody could just totally lift them up and change their.
The way they perceive themselves in their career. Right. And then I think with friends, you know, it's just, you have to be sort of, um, sensitive in the way that you approach it and you don't want to come off as showy or bragging or anything like that, but you could just, you know, just start to ask somebody like, Hey, is this, does this give you anxiety?
Or if it you'll know when it comes up in a conversation, and I think there's a way that we can not like, Hey, let's talk about it. Like, why do you think you feel that way? Well, you know, and then once you learn, I think the whole point is just in sharing. Storytelling and the connection between between people and you don't necessarily have to give advice or compare, but it's just knowing that you're there to provide some.
[00:17:21] Stephanie: It's interesting because a lot of times I associate money with like, not like self-worth, but like I earned this, like, this is what I'm quote valued at. And coming from a background, like I have a professional background, I have an MBA and all of that, but now I, you know, step back and doing a little different.
And so I'm not making that salary. And so for me, like having that conversation about money, I feel like I'm not living up to my own value or my own worth, which is again a story. I think I'm just telling myself.
But it's interesting cause I then see other moms that all of a sudden they're like, oh yeah, you know, I used to be a marketing exec.
I used to be, you know, at blah, blah, blah. And I think we lost that identity or that feeling of ownership. And so it's hard for us to talk about money because then it makes us feel like we're not worth it anymore or something like that. I don't know. That's just like a mindset issue.
[00:18:10] Meghan: I agree with that. I actually just did an episode this week on worth.
And it kind of came off of the heels of mother's day and how, you know, a lot of mother's day can be triggering for some people and myself included in that. Like, I sometimes struggle with my worth as a mom because I also work full time. And so there's, it, it trickles it to other areas, but then I started getting into a little bit more of the conversation around we, as women are always sort of in the working world have just been told.
This is what you make. This is what, based on your skills, experiences, et cetera. This is what we think that you are worth, and this is what we're going to pay you for that worth. And so you kind of, if you just take that. And that is whether that's in alignment with how you, what you really truly feel that your value is, or not.
Regardless if we just take it and accept that as somebody else telling us, this is what we're worth, that can sometimes be really detrimental to our longterm. And, um, and really there's some, there could be some misalignment. What somebody else thinks we're worth versus what we're worth. And that can have a negative effect on us.
Long-term so it was just sort of having that awareness of worth and knowing that we are more than just our jobs, we are more than just moms. We are, we really have to support each other and understand that we have so much more value to add all over the place.
[00:19:29] Stephanie: Yeah. And I, to transition that into relationships, I wanted to talk a little bit about, you know, you have an episode on being the breadwinner and the stigma about being that.
And so I guess I want to talk about. The conversations you might have with your spouse, like or how do you feel about that? Or like, you know, approaching your friends or society and just having that sort of, I guess image or I don't know how to say it. Well, I
[00:19:55] Meghan: I'll start with this. So I think that we've come a long way as women.
And there are so many more women who are out earning men in our kind of. And that's amazing. And I'm so excited for what the future of that is going to look like. I'm so excited. I do feel like it's not just a black and white thing. Women should be excited. They should be proud of how far they've come and the work that they do.
And, and, and that. Amazing. I do also think that there's, it's complicated. It's not like you can just say I out earned my husband and I'm so proud of it. And this is the stance that I have on it.
I think it's, there's a lot of layers of emotions. We still very much live in a culture where there's still this patriarchal kind of element that the man should be out earning money while a woman's staying home, taking care of the kids.
And that is still kind of underlying. A lot of, at least I think some of the thoughts and opinions that come my way, that people will say things that people say to me and things that I might might underlyingly think, but not realize that I'm thinking that. And so I just, I think that there's a lot that comes with that.
And in that episode, I talk about how it's okay to feel this complicated. Like, like I'm so proud of myself and I'm so proud of the work that I've done and how I've gotten to this point. And of course, I mean this last year where my husband's employment situation has been a little Rocky we've needed me to be making what I'm making to be in this position.
So I, I am very proud of that, but then also at the same time, I do struggle with. That, like I just said, mother's day with like, am I, am I doing what I should be doing to take care of my kids? Am I, am I in a question at right. There's some insecurities there. And I feel like, I know if I'm feeling this, I can't be the only one that's feeling this.
So it's, it's, it's very layered with emotions then at the same time, you know, you also have to realize that maybe, you know, not all men are comfortable. That as well, because they come from over there, maybe, maybe an old school background where they also still believe that men should be out earning women, that kind of thing.
So it's like, I really feel like. Both parties in the relationship need to be on the same page and talk about it and be comfortable with their role that they're playing both at work and at home. And that's not always easy.
I think sometimes there's moments there's seasons in your life where you may wish that it was different. And so it's not always gonna be perfect. It's not always going to be the way that ideally the way you want it, but you just juggle it. And as long as you guys are communicating around everything, then you know, you'll make it work. It's just, it's you have your moment. Sometimes there's plenty of times I feel like I've, I would, I would just not go to work today and I would rather be home and be with and be with my kids.
But. Then there's days that I want it to be the complete opposite too. So
[00:22:51] Stephanie: I was to say on that note, once you became a mom, so I assume you were a financial planner before you had your children, once you became a mom, I know you were saying like you were questioning a lot of things. Um, did you ever question your career?
Was it ever even a thought in your head? Should I continue going? And if you did, like what made you continue going and work?
[00:23:10] Meghan: It was never a question for me that I didn't want to continue working. What was the question was in what capacity and how, but I knew that for myself, that I am more fulfilled. I'm a better mom.
When I go. Do a job every day and I'm helping other people and I'm doing something that's fulfilling and exciting for me and I'm filling up my cup. Right. I'm I'm talking to other people I've I get that social aspect there. And when I go to work as well. And so I just know, as I've had another child, things have gotten a little more complicated, a little bit, little bit more crazy as you know, but I need that balance to offset for me personally. And I know not everybody can do that. I know there's plenty of people that struggle with the new, with that juggle. And, um, that's why you just need your tribe. You just need to have to have those people that are there to support you and somebody who can pick up your kid if you're going to be late.
Right. Or just something that makes your life a little bit easier. I'm sure. You know, you're like, this is your life,
[00:24:11] Stephanie: who's in your tribe. Like what type of people do you put in your tribe? Is this like your friends, your family, like who are the people that support you.
[00:24:18] Meghan: Well, the last year has been hard. Of course.
So we've had in our bubble, we've really just had a family that lives down the street from us and then a, um, my mother and father-in-law, and they've been, they're actually here today with my kids. They've been coming since actually my first son was born. They would come every Thursday or just one of them, but then.
As we had to, they come every Thursday. Cause I like to have that relationship with them, with the boys and it's helpful. Cause you know, we'd again pre COVID. We didn't have to do the drop off in the pickup that day, that juggle they'll they bring us dinner. It's just, it's it's nice to have that. And then if they.
It gives us a little bit more flexibility during the day, which is nice. So there's no, you know, stressing about it. I have to leave my meeting early to go pick up the kids and then rush back and stuff. So that's been it, but I mean, I cannot wait until the world starts to open up a little bit more and we can start to expand our bubble to more closer friends that lived near us. And I think that just is one thing I will say, my oldest son, he just turned five. I had a friend that lives in our neighborhood and she called the other day and was like, Hey, my son would love to play with, with Colin, your son. And I was like, okay, I'm just coming back from school right now.
She was like, you could just drop them off at my house if you want and I'll bring them back. And I was like, and so, um, they were playing outside. They played really well together and she drove them home and I came home and I remember saying to my husband, I'm like, Colin's at a friend's house right now.
It was the weirdest thing in the world for me to say, just because I think the world that we've been living in in the last year, and then the fact that he's now a kid, so he's, he can do that and he's okay with it. And so it's just having the ability to have to have people around you like that. So important.
[00:26:02] Stephanie: Is there anything too that you do for yourself daily, besides your morning routine? Do you do anything for just you? Every day?
[00:26:09] Meghan: I try to. And get out for a run or a walk every single day, I have to do something. And I do a lot. I mean, I would love to say that I did this more consistently, but I will try to do even like a two, three minute kind of guided insight timer meditation sometimes just to help me, this is what I really feel.
When I start to get anxious, um, a lot typically like early in the week, like Monday mornings, if I'm coming into a bunch of emails and stuff, I've just dropped the kids off. It's been a chaotic morning. And before I go into by day, I just need to breathe sometimes. And so, and again, I wish I did that more consistently.
I don't, but, um, but that.
[00:26:47] Stephanie: I love insight timer. I use that's one of my many meditation apps, but it's a great one.
[00:26:53] Meghan: So I got my older son into it as well. And so we'll do they have kids meditations? And so we'll do it like, well, as part of our bedtime routine, I'll lie with him and we'll, we will read a book and then turn off the light and I'll let him pick a meditation for just like under 10 minutes, just something.
And usually it helps them fall asleep, but it's just nice. Cause he's now he asks for it. He asked for it almost overnight. So.
[00:27:17] Stephanie: I still want to try meditation with my kids, but I, I feel like my almost six year old can do it, but then the two year old she's a little and they share rooms. So I'm like, yeah. So I will try that.
But to wrap things up, um, my final question is what is your mom's super power that you gained once you became a mom that makes you better at either business
[00:27:37] Meghan: or. I want to say, go with the flow, but it's, it's, it's a little bit deeper than that. I used to think of the world as a very type a person. I used to think of the world as kind of black and white, like it's this or it's that right.
And I think with kids I've really started to, to realize that. There is no black and white, and there's just so many shades of gray and that's where like life is right in the middle and kind of be comfortable like either is my house cleaner is my house messy. I don't know. It's somewhere in the middle and I have to be cool with that.
Right. It's just being comfortable with that messy middle.
[00:28:09] Stephanie: I love that. And where can we find you online?
[00:28:13] Meghan: Yes. So you can check out the podcast. The podcast is called money. Isn't scary. You can check that out on any of the PA podcast platforms, iTunes, Spotify, any of them. And then I also have an Instagram account at, uh, also called, um, at money as in scary.
And, um, and I have a Facebook page as well that you can follow. Awesome. Well, thank you so much
[00:28:33] Stephanie: for joining today, Megan. I appreciate you taking the time and sharing all your money into.
[00:28:37] Meghan: Thank you so much. It was so exciting to be here. Thank
[00:28:41] Stephanie: you so much for listening to this episode of mommy's on a call.
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